1 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:50,040 So it continues, but where did it start? 2 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,160 Independent artists, sportsmen outside the law... 3 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:58,640 The colorful culture of the city has become a platform for a variety of forms of self-expression. 4 00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:06,600 A human thought, visuals, beats and melodies, the sculpting of scents and materials to unique shapes can all express a human emotion. 5 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:11,480 But what happens if someone chooses to express themselves through numbers? 6 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,800 In the 1980�s, something changed the world forever. 7 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:27,800 Computer technology, mostly due to the appearance of affordable Commodore 64�s, entered households worldwide, 8 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,640 providing the opportunity for everyone to create digital art. 9 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:39,320 But existing art forms weren�t the only ones to be re-implemented on these computers; 10 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:44,920 brand new forms of art also appeared, ones thought to be impossible up to that point. 11 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:52,400 Computers provided an opportunity for the creator to produce visuals and sound effects 12 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:56,000 and combine them to create the ultimate audiovisual experience, 13 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:00,800 by using only the language of mathematics and writing program code, without physical interaction. 14 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:09,520 As a result of such techniques, demos were born, and with them, the demoscene subculture. 15 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:20,880 A demo can best be understood as a spectacular animated music video which is usually a few minutes long. 16 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,160 And yet it�s something entirely different from a traditional video. 17 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,720 - So it�s not a video or an audio file. 18 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:28,960 - No, it�s an executable program. - Yes, it�s software. 19 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,640 - Yes, it�s software like like a computer game. 20 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,960 People who play video games may be familiar with the term 'demo'. 21 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:43,960 This software, however, should not be confused with the artworks demosceners call 'demos'. 22 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:53,640 - Game demos are promotional copies of the game that have, for example, two levels out of two hundred. 23 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:58,920 - A demo in the demoscene is an artwork that has nothing to do with game demos. 24 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:12,520 They do have one thing in common though: Demos are made using the same techniques as video games, 25 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:17,200 the same skills are needed to create them, and they both end up as executable programs. 26 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,200 Of course, there are many differences along the way. 27 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:27,840 - If you�re making a game professionally, or if you�re making a game even for, even for you and your friends, 28 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:33,600 - there is a set thing that you have to follow. With the demoscene, you can pretty much break all that. 29 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:39,760 Sir Garbagetruck. American coder, organizer, who has moved to Europe. 30 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,680 Has a self-admitted problem with finishing demos. 31 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:48,120 - You can either do abstract, you can have a plan. There are so many different things, 32 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:54,360 - and the creativity involved and just being able, the freedom involved to doing whatever the heck you want to. 33 00:05:54,360 --> 00:06:00,920 - You can encounter problems in the scene that ignite your programming creativity, 34 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,880 - to find out how to do something more simple, smaller, more efficiently. 35 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:16,400 - The point of a demo is to create an music-video-like experience using visuals and audio that you can really enjoy watching. 36 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:24,280 - Some friends sit down - coders, designers, graphicians, musicians - and they decide to do something spectacular, 37 00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:29,440 - or not spectacular but fun to do. And then they decide to show it to others too. 38 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:35,480 - That�s the concept, a gratifying hobby you can enjoy. 39 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:48,880 - Most people haven�t studied this. In fact, I don�t think anyone has studied this, 40 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:56,720 - everyone here is a self-taught programmer, artist, musician. From this perspective, it�s a naive artform. 41 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:07,760 - Apart from being an outlet for self-expression, the demoscene doesn't make much sense as it is today. 42 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:13,440 BoyC. Coder, member of Conspiracy and Digital Dynamite. 43 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:18,960 His demo Chaos Theory, created in his demotool Addict, has been shown in the United States at Siggraph, 44 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,960 the world�s most renowned computer graphics conference. 45 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,920 - People always made demos for fun. 46 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:31,920 - And of course back in the day, to show off to each other, �Look, what I did with this computer.� 47 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:43,320 - In the �90s when we started getting serious about this kind of stuff, we were continually surprised by demos, 48 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:48,160 - because we saw things on the screen that we didn�t think were possible. 49 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:52,280 - We saw these things, and our jaws just hit the floor, thinking �Oh my God, you can do THAT with that program?� 50 00:07:52,280 --> 00:08:00,280 - This is what really moves us, motivates us, to find new and impressive way of rendering graphics. 51 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,160 The similarities don�t end there. 52 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:13,280 The birth and eventual popularity of the demoscene can be largely attributed to the appearance of computer games, 53 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:17,400 the removal of their copy protection, and their subsequent distribution. 54 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:27,120 - When people started cracking games on the C64 twenty, twenty-five, almost thirty years ago, 55 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:37,920 - after they were so happy after they cracked them that they left their names there, in the high score list, or in a graphic. 56 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:45,080 - Then they realized that it's even cooler to prepend a picture in front of the game, for example. 57 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:51,680 - They added text scrollers and greetings and it got more and more complex. 58 00:08:51,680 --> 00:08:55,960 - This is starting to sound a lot like graffiti to me. 59 00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:02,480 - Yeah, it�s similar, they sometimes I�ve heard it said that the demoscene is �digital graffiti.� 60 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:17,960 - When someone cracked a game, they put little �intros� or �cracktros� in front of the game introducing the group, 61 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:23,320 - saying �We�re cool because we cracked this game and you didn�t.� 62 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:38,400 - And then these groups formed, and the challenge wasn�t just cracking the game anymore, 63 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:44,320 - but also making better looking intros in front of the game. 64 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:50,640 - People got to the point where they stopped caring about the game and only watched the intros. 65 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:59,800 - And I was also one of those people! I liked the music a lot, the fonts were cool, and they did some unbelievable things. 66 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:05,240 - Sometimes they were more technically advanced than the game itself. 67 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,480 - Then there was a point where people who were doing this started enjoying it so much 68 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:20,960 - that they decided they didn�t need games anymore, just the intros. 69 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:22,880 - That was the moment the demoscene was born. 70 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:38,880 - If you had a computer, that was already an elite thing, and you had to meet other people who had computers; 71 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:43,840 - the thrill came from creating things with the computer, instead of just playing games. 72 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,040 - That�s why the demoscene was able to take shape. 73 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,600 Slyspy. Musician, graphics artist, member of United Force. 74 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,880 Has quite possibly written more music than any other Hungarian scener, 75 00:10:54,880 --> 00:11:00,000 and has recently gained popularity outside Hungary after he started making his own demos and animations. 76 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:06,880 - We met at the 'Csoki', the Csokonay Community House, 77 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:13,360 - that was the center of the Hungarian computer culture, the weekend club. 78 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:18,240 - That was where I first saw demos on the C64, and I immediately took a liking to them. 79 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:25,240 - For a few years I was just interested, then as groups started forming, 80 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:31,080 - I slowly got involved in it like other people doing these things. 81 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,600 In the last 30 years, the demoscene, having evolved from cracktros, 82 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,320 as well as computer science itself, has gone through radical changes. 83 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,600 Over time, the tools, the limits, and the purpose have all changed. 84 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:55,160 - Back then it all revolved around coding, exploiting tight hardware limitations, like on an 8-bit C64 or an Amiga. 85 00:11:55,160 --> 00:12:00,080 - In those days the attitude was �we�ll prove that we�re the best.� 86 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:06,080 - World records were easy to measure, because like the C64, all the computers had the same capabilities. 87 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:15,160 - So they went for world records for drawing the most sine-dots or largest number of wavy scrollers. 88 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:19,520 - And if someone could drew 250 dots, but his neighbor was able to draw 253, 89 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:24,640 - it escalated into a 48-hour caffeine marathon to figure out how to draw 257. 90 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:37,200 - The limits are broader now, so it�s more about design. 91 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:45,280 - Demos try to be unique artistically, but still, the demos that gain the most respect are the ones 92 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:53,200 - that are exciting both codewise - by pushing limitations - and also artistically. 93 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:59,760 - The point is to present a product that makes people sh*t themselves! 94 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:15,560 Of course, this is the easiest to achieve when the audience knows the limitations of that given computer, 95 00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:17,800 and is aware of the technical possibilities. 96 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,640 Naive observers may not be astonished by a rotating cube, 97 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:27,760 even though perhaps even the engineers creating the computer wouldn't have thought that to be possible on the system in question. 98 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,840 As limitations expanded, it has become possible to create spectacular demos 99 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,960 that can be enjoyed without a particular technical knowledge. 100 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,520 This can also be attributed to a change in artistic perspective. 101 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:47,560 - Nowadays the roles are more diffuse, demos and intros usually have a sort of a producer or director 102 00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:55,840 - who has a vision for the final big picture, and they�re the ones trying to manage the workflow. 103 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:57,840 - The director. - Yeah, the director. 104 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:03,720 - Some demos are purely about technology, �Look, I made a cool effect, whoa, great.� 105 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:12,280 - Some don�t use much new technology, but they look great, and that�s their point. 106 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:20,480 - And there are some which, well, try to convey some kind of message. 107 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:29,120 On Tuesday, I realized that I help people sell other people stuff they don�t really need. 108 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,360 This happened during lunch. 109 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:39,960 - It�s become harder to appreciate demos that only display a cube or a good looking 3D scene 110 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:45,320 - even if it looks good, it needs to have a concept to really be appreciated. 111 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,440 Gargaj. Coder, musician, member of Conspiracy and �mla�t Design. 112 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:55,720 Main organizer of the Function demoparty, actively takes part in a variety of foreign events. 113 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:04,400 - A part of the thing that the United States doesn�t often see about the demoscene is how social it is. 114 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,160 - It�s a very social thing. 115 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:20,160 The small community of the scene itself is as important to keep the creation process alive as the artists themselves. 116 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,400 The communal event of the subculture itself is called the demoparty, 117 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:30,960 a computer-related event where fans of the scene compare their skills, exchange experiences and ideas, and socialize. 118 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:36,760 Productions are entered in a variety of categories and ultimately they�re subjected to a final audience vote. 119 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,440 In essence, these parties keep the demoscene running. 120 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:46,320 - Very few people do productions �just for kicks�, to release them on some website; 121 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:53,200 - the idea is usually to enter a competition at a party, and to see it on the bigscreen and hear it on the PA, 122 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:58,240 - and the audience either likes it or it doesn�t, but at least it has an effect on them. 123 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:10,560 - We are a bunch of opinionated people who like to see people make things. 124 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:17,840 - Seeing your work on a bigscreen, being watched and applauded by two hundred people, there�s nothing better than that! 125 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:29,400 - Some people like to release demos to for the challenge of beating other teams. 126 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,760 - Some people enjoy just competing. 127 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:38,600 - Some people enjoy going to the competitions and entering something that they know other people are going to hate. 128 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,120 The roots of demoparties reach back to the 80�s, 129 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:50,040 and their existence can also be owed to illegally cracked and distributed games. 130 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:59,040 - These parties were originally copyparties, people came together to copy stuff. 131 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,320 - You mean you couldn�t just steal stuff 132 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:05,400 - Sure you could, but you had no Internet back then, and besides postal mail, 133 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,880 - the easiest method was to just drop by your neighbour�s and copy a floppy. 134 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,760 - And if you had more than forty 'neighbours', you rented out a hall. 135 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:34,240 - They came together, they copied stuff, and eventually demos appeared, 136 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:39,800 - because some people were just interested in making intros. 137 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:48,200 - Currently there�s only one party here in Hungary that�s a multiplatform, 'PC' party, and there�s also an 8-bit one. 138 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:56,440 - There aren�t any serious prizes here, so it�s more about, I don�t know, the moral victory, the experience itself. 139 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,400 Function is currently the biggest Hungarian multi-platform demoscene party, 140 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:05,400 hosting 150-200 enthusiasts annually since 2003. 141 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,480 About a quarter of them participate in the competitions as well. 142 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:20,600 - The hard core was always around 100-200 people, and that has since shrunk to 50-60, so we know each other pretty well by now. 143 00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:24,640 - What do you expect from this kind of party? 144 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:31,560 - Do you expect good demos, or do you expect the community to show up? Is there a specific goal, or is it just 'there'? 145 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:37,600 - We expect people to show up, enjoy themselves, and bring great productions. 146 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,080 - I couldn�t rank these things. 147 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:48,720 - All I know is when a party ends and you look around at those 100-150-200 people who showed up 148 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,880 - because that�s the size of Hungarian parties - 149 00:18:51,880 --> 00:19:00,560 - then you just instinctively know that you have to do it again next year, period. I can�t explain why. 150 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:08,280 - It�s about seeing happy people. Whether they�re happy because they saw great demos they never saw before, 151 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:18,680 - or because they started chatting with someone next to them and now they�re swapping sources and they got something to use later, 152 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:26,520 - or because they experienced that atmosphere when the organizers announce the start of the compo, 153 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:31,960 - and shut off the lights, and the first entry appears, and they got shivers 154 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:38,720 - All of these things happened to me when I started to go to parties, and I couldn�t just pick one of them, 155 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:48,480 - all I know is that when I came back from my first party, I thought �Yup, that was it, I�m sold, I gotta go to more of these�. 156 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:53,720 - I was wondering whether it�s worth it to organize parties. I mean you don�t really get sponsors, 157 00:19:53,720 --> 00:20:00,440 - there are no products to sell, so it�s only organized for fun and for the purpose of meeting up, right? 158 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,120 - Financially, it�s not worth it. 159 00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:12,320 - We don�t get state funding, because what we do isn�t considered to be art or culture. 160 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,560 -We don�t do this because it�s worth it or not. 161 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:21,920 - Sometimes people do things they know that aren�t worth it, but they do it because they know they have to. 162 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,200 - We have a lot of returning foreign visitors. 163 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:30,720 - They not only show up to check where 'Bucharest' is, but because they�ve already been here and enjoyed it. 164 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,440 Arles. A small town in Southern France, not far from Marseille. 165 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,480 It�s popular among visitors due to it�s authentic Mediterranean old town, 166 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,880 but in October, people are attracted for a different reason. 167 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,840 In recent years, Arles hosted one of France�s best known parties, MAIN, 168 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,680 partly organized by Hungarians. 169 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:58,520 - We organized a party in Hungary, and on the last two occasions, the foreigners were watching the videostream over the Internet 170 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,000 - and later asked for our help with organizing their party. 171 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,480 Pasy. Coder, organizer, member of Fresh!Mindworkz and Rebels. 172 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,000 Has quite possibly coded more demos than any other Hungarian scener. 173 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,560 Technical lead organizer of the Main party in France. 174 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:21,320 - First it was only me travelling to a meeting, later I collected a team, 175 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:26,000 - and eventually the entire technical team ended up being Hungarians. 176 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:35,320 - French organizers are much better with financial and political organizing, keeping contacts, that sort of stuff. 177 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,800 There are many similarities between Hungarian and foreign parties, but there are plenty of differences as well, 178 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,400 not necessarily limited to the giant display mounted on the roof of the party hall, 179 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,120 which incidentally provides a competition platform for a variety of productions as well. 180 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:14,920 - The budget for a Hungarian party is the amount they spend on two or three people here. 181 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:20,920 - The heads of the association are really good at finding sponsors, 182 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:26,360 - and art is curated a lot more here in France, it doesn�t matter what kind of art it is. 183 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:35,440 The demoscene is one of the few forms of art where the artists are all part of one collective. 184 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:40,040 It�d be hard to imagine multiple, independent communities or outlets of expression 185 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:45,040 or that someone would create demos while detached from the main community, publishing works in different places. 186 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:49,040 - If people stop making parties, demoscene will die. 187 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:55,320 - Because you need real contact in real life with people you make demos with, 188 00:22:55,320 --> 00:23:00,320 - and you meet with to talk, even it is just once-twice a year. 189 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,000 - You feel the demoscene when you are talking with the people. 190 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:10,520 - It has happened that a demo was played for which I have written the music, 191 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:16,520 - and someone walked up and asked whether I used a certain instrument or a certain synth, 192 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:20,760 - and we started talking and we�ve become friends. 193 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:25,560 - Our biggest rivals are also our best friends, I�m happy to say that. 194 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:35,760 Parties are of course not only about the competitions, but also about gaining experience and having fun. 195 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:40,760 Aside from technical lectures, the schedules often consist of scene-related live acts or bands, 196 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,960 and in several cases, a demoparty has become memorable not only because of the demos shown, 197 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,320 but because of the actual party itself. 198 00:23:55,520 --> 00:24:01,560 - At Polish parties it has happened that the organizing team was already drunk on the first day 199 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:06,120 - and people are arriving, trying to find the party 200 00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:10,560 - Finns just sit around drinking vodka straight from the bottle 201 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,320 - and then someone walks up to pee on someone else�s bicycle. 202 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,760 - There haven�t been any deaths though. No deaths and no births. 203 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:30,440 - I�d like to know how it feels to be female in the scene, �cos it seems like a boys� club. 204 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:35,640 - Is it easy to find friends? �Cos it�s mostly males. 205 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:43,480 - Sure, it�s not that hard. Of course everyone have their own little theories about how it works. 206 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:50,320 - When I started, there were already a few girls in the scene all around Europe and in Hungary as well. 207 00:24:50,320 --> 00:25:01,400 - You had musicians, graphics artists, coders, a lot of visitors, tagging along with their boyfriends. 208 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:11,240 - I don�t know about activity, I�d guess it�s around 90/10, no? Or 80/20? 209 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:12,400 - I�d say 80/20. 210 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,040 Demos aren�t the only things to compete at parties: 211 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:25,280 other categories include pictures, music, standalone pieces of code, even photos and miscellaneous other productions. 212 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,040 They do have one thing in common though: They�re mostly finished just before the deadline. 213 00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:35,400 - Everyone has way too little time to make demos, so things are left to the last minute. 214 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:41,400 - You usually go without sleep for the last few days, only concentrating on your demo. 215 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:50,160 - That usually manifests as flaws and little imperfections, because they�re literally finished at the last minute, 216 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:55,320 - but this also provides a thrill that keeps people going. 217 00:25:55,320 --> 00:26:00,240 - So in a sense it�s like a mental extreme sport. 218 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:08,120 - Sometimes it happens that the demo is finished at the party. -Yes, I heard that somebody is finishing at the last moment. 219 00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:12,600 - Someone is finishing the demo - It�s not like that, it�s not perfect, it�s not perfect. 220 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:20,400 - No, when I was leaving home, it still crashed at the begining, there is still a few major flaws to be fixed. 221 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:27,600 - It�s a whole different feeling to go to a party and have something to enter than to just attend 222 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:32,160 - It�s a whole different feeling to go to a party knowing you�re gonna spend the entire party in a corner 223 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,280 - in front of a laptop trying to hack something together. 224 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,480 - Yeah, it has happened, even if it wasn�t the entire party. 225 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:43,960 - But that has it�s charm too, sitting there working on something, people come up, take a listen, take a look 226 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,320 - You can look up, check out someone else working 227 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:52,000 - You can ask for advice from other musicians, if you�re working on music, or from other coders if you�re a coder. 228 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,720 - Yeah, if it crashes you just yell over, �Hey, could you check this out for me?� 229 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,600 - And you end up with three people debugging it. 230 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:11,840 - What�s the minimum amount of time needed to make a demo? 231 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,720 - 90 minutes. 232 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:20,040 - Yeah, it can be anything from 90 minutes to several years. 233 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:32,800 As the evolution of computer science started expanding the technical borders, a demand for artificial limitations became clear. 234 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,440 This is how size-limited demos, or 'intros', came to be. 235 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:44,320 The point of these is that the final executable file isn�t allowed to exceed the given sizelimitation, for example 4 or 64 kilobytes. 236 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,840 - My classmate brought me these files on a floppy, saying 237 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:57,280 - �check this out, you�re not gonna believe what this is gonna show you in 64 kilobytes!� 238 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:04,160 - You have an executable file, you run it, you get four minutes of music video, and it�s so amazing it blows your mind. 239 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,360 - Pounding techno music. - Yeah! 240 00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:13,400 - You see a 4 kilobyte intro, showing off a shocking amount of high-quality visuals, 241 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:18,120 - and you can�t even fathom how much 4 kilobytes are: 242 00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:24,480 - You start writing something in Wordpad and you go over 4 kilobytes very fast. 243 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:32,120 - Get your... let�s say CV in the Microsoft Word. Your CV is already three times bigger that this intro. 244 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:40,120 To store one letter, or one character, you need one byte of space. 245 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:46,400 4 kilobytes of space means 4096 characters. That�s little more than a page of text. 246 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,800 That�s the maximum amount of data a 4 kilobyte intro can consist of. 247 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:56,040 Running such a program, however, can allow the computer to generate 5 minutes of visuals and music 248 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,040 in full HD resolution, in realtime. Like this one. 249 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:21,120 - When you are limiting yourself to a very tight size, like 4 kbytes or 64 kbytes, 250 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:30,440 - you really need to use not-so-usual ways of drawing to the screen, or getting sound out of the speakers. 251 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:41,880 While 64 kilobyte intros can store 16 times the information of 4 kilobyte ones, 252 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:46,120 they�re still considerably smaller than content stored the traditional way. 253 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:53,680 Normally, 64 kilobyte space allows one to store about 4 seconds of average quality MP3, or about half a second of video. 254 00:29:53,680 --> 00:30:01,280 - You watch a five minute video, it blows your mind because it�s so awesome and ultimately it turns out 255 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:06,480 - that the file would fit ten thousand times on a DVD or CD. 256 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:11,880 - If you rendered it to video, it would only fit three times. 257 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,720 Some people think even 4 kilobytes of space is too much. 258 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:24,560 This is why we can encounter productions and competitions for 256 or even 128 byte intros, 259 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:30,120 where the limitation is merely this amount of characters. Nowadays, these usually consist of short animations without sound. 260 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:35,800 - We saw 3D visuals in 128 bytes. 261 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:50,680 - Jaws dropping everywhere, screaming ovation, everything. And then they showed the bytecode on the bigscreen in a hex editor. 262 00:30:50,680 --> 00:31:01,480 - �This is it.� And we applauded the code, because we couldn�t believe that someone did it with only that. 263 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:09,640 - We feel the need for the limitation, you know, to feel more creative. 264 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,040 Just as artists strive to conquer artificial limitations on modern computers, 265 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:29,360 people who write demos for retro computers are driven to explore technical limitations in the most profound ways possible. 266 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:33,480 Commodore 64, Plus 4, ZX Spectrum, Amiga. 267 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:38,640 Computers long out of production, sometimes with technologies and barriers from 30 years ago, 268 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:44,040 and yet they continue to be utilized to present more and more unbelievable things from time to time. 269 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:52,840 Their popularity is best demonstrated by the fact that the C64 can still claim to have the most productions ever released, 270 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:57,000 having over 18000 compared to about 14000 on the PC. 271 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:03,000 - There�s a smaller group of people who love these computers, 272 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:10,560 - and perhaps they don�t even care about other machines, because they have their own demoscene turf. 273 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:27,000 - Back when there were more sceners, there was this less-than-serious rivalry thing. 274 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:35,400 - It was a bit exaggerated, C64 users versus PC users, especially Amiga users versus PC users 275 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:41,120 - You know, kinda like Depeche Mode fans versus Cure fans, and so on. 276 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,360 Reptile. Started as a musician, later worked as a coder. 277 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,920 Member of Astroidea, with whom he has won a variety of competitions. 278 00:32:51,600 --> 00:33:00,440 - The Amiga was a computer way ahead of it�s time. It was an incredibly well built machine, very imaginative. 279 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:06,720 - And for a lot of people, the PC hurt because they considered it a step back in many ways. 280 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:14,080 - The Amiga wasn�t a computer for the masses! That was the point, it was like the Harley-Davidson, it had an elegance to it. 281 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:19,640 - And then the PC came along, the mass-market machine, plastic junk with interchangable parts. 282 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,720 - Businesswise, this was obviously a better model, 283 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:35,480 - but the elegance of the Amiga created a really strict culture around it; people would kill for what the Amiga means for them. 284 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:02,960 Ajkarendek. A small ordinary village in western Hungary. Streets are quiet, people are nice. 285 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,960 Once a year, however, something changes. 286 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,240 Every summer the town is flooded with fans of 8-bit computers for 3 days, 287 00:34:19,240 --> 00:34:23,720 who are there to take part in �rok Party, an event that�s been running for almost fifteen years now. 288 00:34:23,720 --> 00:34:31,760 - �rok Party is THE genuine party for the C64 and other 8-bit computers in Hungary. 289 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:41,440 - Initially we made it a strictly demoscene event, that was the intention, but then we realized there are more people interested. 290 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:47,080 - Others showed up, some made hardware, others just played games. 291 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,640 Poison. Graphics artist, member of Singular Crew. 292 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,960 One of the main organizers of the 15-year-old �rok Party. 293 00:34:55,000 --> 00:35:02,160 - It�s one of those parties which are mostly about friendship, despite the common heritage these people have. 294 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:08,080 - A lot of veterans show up to hang out, when we meet every summer. 295 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:15,280 - There�s been years with almost a hundred people, some of them Czech, some of them Polish, sometimes a Swedish guy 296 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:35,920 - There used to be a rule that you weren�t allowed to bring machines that weren�t 8-bit, 297 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:41,080 - and it used to be really strict, but eventually even the organizers brought their own stuff, running emulators 298 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:42,880 - They couldn�t bring phones. 299 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:52,000 - Yeah, phones would be a problem with that rule, my phone for example is basically a thousand times faster than a C64. 300 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:58,600 - We thought about extending the competitions beyond the usual graphics, music, demo stuff, 301 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:05,240 - but we also try to come up with some playful stuff you don�t see at other events. 302 00:36:05,240 --> 00:36:10,800 - This year we had a real-life adventure game, which you had to play in the village itself. 303 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:16,680 - It had nothing to do with computers, you just got a map and you had to do quests. 304 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,680 - Oooh, this must be some sort of level - It�s a f*cking plasma effect! 305 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,760 - Yeah, it�s a 'sub-subculture' party. 306 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:53,280 The hype around the Commodore 64 continues to live on in a variety of ways. 307 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,680 The popularity of music made with the C64 is undiminished. 308 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:06,800 Today, there are a lot of people experimenting with performing C64 music live, whether with an orchestra, or even a cappella. 309 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:18,200 And of course, there�s been examples of popular producers getting inspired by C64 music. 310 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:36,720 SIDRip Alliance is a band who adapts C64 music to the arsenal of a rock band. 311 00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,800 - We were in eighth grade, and we were all avid C64 gamers. 312 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,680 - You had a tape recorder where you could record the music from the television. 313 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,680 - We�d record the music from the TV, and then we�d listen to it on tape. C64 game music 314 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,160 - So basically you�d listen to game soundtracks? 315 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,000 - Yeah, game and demo soundtrack. 316 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,000 - There�s no sheet music, so you have to figure it out 317 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,080 - It�s hard to make sheet music out of 1, 0, 0, 1 318 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,720 - You only have three channels, and dividing three channels between six instruments, that�s a rough job. 319 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:44,400 - I guess the hardest part was that there are a lot of tracks that were never intended to be played live. 320 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:50,040 - They don�t have well-defined musical keys, they just meander around, and although they do have a method to them, 321 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,400 - you can�t just say �Okay, this is a major scale,� no. 322 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:10,320 Rearranging C64 music for actual instruments is a tricky task, 323 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:17,440 possibly because on a computer, just creating a single note requires a radically different approach than on a physical instrument. 324 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,600 You can�t just pluck a string or press a key. 325 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:27,160 - There are some similarities between current synthesizers and oldschool musicmaking; 326 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:33,120 - they both start out with a sinewave or a triangle wave, for example, instead of samples. 327 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:38,480 - You don�t just grab a trumpet, put it behind a microphone, and boom, it�s inside the machine. 328 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:43,680 - No, you take your basic waveforms and you modulate and tweak them. 329 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:55,920 - So you have to give a command to the machine in its own language saying �Take this sound and modulate it so and so.� 330 00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:09,120 - Yeah, take a sinewave, set it to frequency X, say 1kHz, turn on the filter, set it to lowpass, cut it off at 2000Hz, and so on. 331 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,560 Vincenzo. Musician, member of Conspiracy, Rebels and Fresh!Mindworkz. 332 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,400 Capable of producing music on any machine, regardless of the number of bits available. 333 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:24,960 - The C64 SID is pretty limited, but you can do a lot of things with it. 334 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:32,520 - You can only use three channels, which means you can only play three sounds at once. 335 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:36,920 - Being creative is exponentially useful here. 336 00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:54,800 - This is basically the sheet music. With speed 3, using instrument 1, with full volume, you play a note at pitch F-1, 337 00:40:54,800 --> 00:41:01,120 - then it goes on, and here it hits a 'GATE', which means it stops the note. 338 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:06,440 - Then we switch to instrument 0 with the pitch G-1, and then we mute it. 339 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:12,880 - The sound generation itself, the editing of the sound parameters, is done on a different screen. 340 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:25,320 - You start at number 0, you start with the value 41, which means 'square wave', then a square wave again with modulation C, 341 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:35,040 - which means shifting up an octave, then 41 00 means 'square wave with no pitch shift'. 342 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,400 - And how do you know that? - Experience. 343 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:43,320 - I guess you couldn�t have learned this from a book. - Experimenting, it�s all about experimenting. 344 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:48,400 - You have all these basic sounds you can play around with and combine. 345 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:55,160 - It�s not that complicated, if you learn the fundamentals, you can easily make music on a C64. 346 00:41:55,160 --> 00:42:03,160 - He�s full of shit, by the way, don�t believe a word what he says, I heard a demo of his where he had a horse neigh programmed in! 347 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:08,920 - How did you do that? I mean it really IS a horse neigh! 348 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:14,280 - Oh easy, 02, 06, 41, 68, 7B 349 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:25,560 - Limitations forced these people making computer music to create something out of nothing, 350 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,600 - and you can�t do that without an insane amount of genius. 351 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:36,400 - Live act with a Commodore 64? Is that even possible? - Some people have done it, yeah! 352 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:57,640 With the appearance of the Amiga and the PC, music tools evolved further. First, trackers appeared, 353 00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:04,000 bearing a slight resemblance to C64 software, but with the ability to play back digitized samples, 354 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,480 eventually allowing people to write complex pieces of music. 355 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:14,240 Today, demo music is written with the newest generation of music software, the same tools used for songs you hear on the radio. 356 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:24,800 A 4 or 64 kilobyte intro, however, due to the restrictions in size, can rarely allow digitized sound, 357 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:31,400 so one must revert to the original approach seen on the C64, and create sounds using basic waveforms. 358 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:43,440 - How does the demoscene follow musical trends? Does what�s hot and what�s not matter? 359 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:48,240 - I told you, I have dubstep poisoning! - So even demosceners do dubstep? 360 00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:53,800 - Insane amounts! Insane amounts of bigbeat, insane amounts of drum-and-bass, insane amounts of dubstep. 361 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:58,200 - Occasionally you get a cool metal demo, usually from Finland. 362 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:02,600 - So there are no restrictions, not even within electronic music. 363 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:09,920 - Not at all. There�s ambient, there�s even a lot of drone ambient, where it�s the same buzzing note for ten minutes. 364 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,720 - I can think of demos with samba soundtracks, but it�s not really a trend. 365 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:34,440 - Despite them being computer music, they�re really catchy, there�s a lot of genius in there, 366 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:41,400 - and if these tracks had been written commercially, they would�ve been hits. Their melodic style guarantees it. 367 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:58,120 - Mostly demoscene musicians are just demoscene musicians. - I see, so they are separated from the musical scene. 368 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:04,560 - Not completely separated, but yeah, you find demoscene musicians doing cool drum-and-bass tracks, 369 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,760 - and they will only release them in the demoscene, and nowhere else. 370 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:26,520 - Commercially exploiting the music of a demo is just so far from the philosophy of it all; nobody is really interested in that. 371 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:33,840 - The problem is that the quality and popularity of music isn�t always on the same level. 372 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:41,040 - I mean I�m not sure if you can hear it in the background, there�s some brilliant electronic stuff you can hear now, 373 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,640 - but what goes on in the outside world? �Come on Barbie girl� 374 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:55,640 Computers' graphical capabilities have evolved considerably over the past thirty years, simultaneously with their musical ones. 375 00:45:55,640 --> 00:46:01,720 Today, artists use tools to create a 3D model that makes the workflow similar to sculpting an actual statue. 376 00:46:01,720 --> 00:46:07,360 20-25 years ago, in the age of the C64, graphics artists found themselves facing limitations 377 00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,640 that made drawing pictures pixel-by-pixel the fastest way. 378 00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:19,680 - This software is keyboard-controlled. 379 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:36,120 - That�s what makes it so fast to work with, if you get used to it and get used to its features, then you can draw with it relatively fast. 380 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:44,400 - And when you zoom out to full screen, here you can only view the picture. 381 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:53,680 The biggest challenge, however, is that while the C64 only has 16 colors, it can only display 2 or 4 colors on a single character. 382 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,800 Drawing applications mark these character limits with a grid. 383 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:03,680 - See, you can see that I can�t use orange here anymore, 384 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:10,200 - because I�m already using three colors in this character besides the black background. 385 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:19,160 - So this is where you start doing tricks, swapping some colors so you won�t notice. 386 00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:26,480 - Your eye won�t necessarily be able to discern if a couple of pixels are the wrong color. 387 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:41,040 - That�s part of the beauty of pixel art, you gotta adhere to the limitations. 388 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:53,960 - Putting it together dot by dot isn�t enough, you have to pay attention to the limitations of the hardware. 389 00:47:59,720 --> 00:48:09,040 - If you look at most C64 graphics artists who produce pictures today, most of them don�t use a C64 anymore. 390 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:16,520 - There are a lot of cross-platform tools, which means it�s running on a different platform, you have a lot more features, 391 00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:20,720 - but it�s designed to make the end result viewable on a C64. 392 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:34,720 - The newest fad is to make converters instead of drawing tools. 393 00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:41,840 - This means you can use any image editor on the PC, hand the result over to the tool, 394 00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:50,160 - and it tries to figure out a way to present the picture on the C64 in the best looking way possible. 395 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:55,800 Here, the programmers compete in using undocumented, essentially faulty functionalities of the computer 396 00:48:55,800 --> 00:49:02,480 to create more versatile video modes which can be used to produce pictures in higher resolutions or with more colors. 397 00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:09,040 The rules of these modes are so complex that keeping them all in mind while drawing is practically impossible, 398 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,800 which is why tools are written to convert finished pictures to such formats. 399 00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:17,640 - You can�t humanly comprehend these types of limitations anymore. 400 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:26,960 - Stuff like, �I can use the background color in every third character, if it�s a wide pixel, and above it, 401 00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:36,120 - in every raster line I can use three other colors, and then,� whatever. You can�t keep this stuff in mind. 402 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:52,560 - The crazy thing is, new video modes for the C64 are still being found today, stuff you�d think isn�t possible. 403 00:49:52,560 --> 00:50:00,120 - Every year we think �nah, this is the limit, you can�t do more,� and still someone always does. 404 00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:06,720 - So chipretro is blossoming and the limits can still be pushed. - They�re certainly pushing the envelope, yeah! 405 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:19,240 The progress in computer science has obviously upgraded the visuals as well. 406 00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:23,360 Nowadays, the tools used for making pictures shown at demoparties 407 00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:28,160 are the same tools used for creating popular animated films or computer games. 408 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:33,400 It�s possible, however, to find subgenres unique to the demoscene, 409 00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:37,840 such as logos, which are meant to display text in a spectacular manner, similar to graffiti. 410 00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:44,960 These logos sometimes appear next to the demo in the informational text files as well, 411 00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:49,320 in which case they are recreated by only using the ASCII character set of the computer. 412 00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:57,160 In the 80s and 90s, it wasn�t just the production process of such artworks that was more difficult than today. 413 00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:04,520 Without the Internet, general communication and the distribution of such works was performed the analog way, through ordinary mail. 414 00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:08,400 'Swappers' who eventually created their own networks across the globe, 415 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:13,640 put demos, games, and copies of other software onto floppies and exchanged them via postal mail. 416 00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:22,640 - We, mailtraders, have one-hundred contacts with other people. And we were some kind of peer-to-peer network. 417 00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:30,240 - I have stuff from these guys, I write a letter, pack all the stuffs and send it to the other guys. 418 00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:33,800 - It was important, if you had something new, you had to get it out to these other people. 419 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:40,280 - Here in Hungary, you had guys who had more than five-hundred contacts sending stuff via ordinary mail. 420 00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,960 - Who the mailman had to do an extra round for. 421 00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:51,440 - We have full envelopes of floppys, four floppys, eight floppys all around Europe. 422 00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:57,800 - So I had let�s say twenty huge envelopes in my postbox every day. 423 00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:03,080 - Swappers were important people that time in the groups, because they would distribute your stuff. 424 00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:13,000 - After every party I released a pack. All the intros from that party was included in the pack. 425 00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:21,400 Demos and applications weren�t the only things to be distributed via mail. 426 00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:25,080 Teams of self-appointed editors started so-called diskmagazines. 427 00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:29,600 These weren�t just textfiles, but executable programs displaying their content. 428 00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:40,640 - You had a disk, a PRG file, and it was a magazine, you loaded it, you selected a category, news, columns, etc. 429 00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:48,000 - And then you sent it to friends, acquaintances, neighbours, and that�s how it spread around. 430 00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:57,920 - If you go back to these early diskmags, you�ll see terms like "Stamps back!� 431 00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:06,000 - You know, guys were trying to They didn�t have that much money, but you know, you had to keep up all your contacts you had. 432 00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:09,040 - And if you had a hundred contacts, you�d say "Stamps back!�, 433 00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:14,080 - meaning send my stamps back to me, so I can use them or try to use them again. 434 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,760 In these days, even downloading wasn�t the same. 435 00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:21,560 To be exact, the correct term would be �downwhistling�. 436 00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:33,040 - It was in the middle of the 80s when Hungarian national TV and radio had some experimental broadcasts, 437 00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:37,560 - where they 'whistled down' software. 438 00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:48,960 - Basically, if you save a C64 program to a cassette tape, you get this bleepy noise. 439 00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:54,720 - And then they took this noise, broadcast it, and you could record it. 440 00:53:54,720 --> 00:54:01,640 - So if you had a cassette tape recorder, they�d say �Commodore users, Spectrum users, start recording,� 441 00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:08,200 - you�d record it, take the cassette, and use it to load the programe on a C64 or Spectrum. 442 00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:20,120 Today, PC demos or intros are generally made in one of two ways: 443 00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,440 Either from scratch, programming the demo from the ground up, 444 00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,520 or by utilizing a demotool created by the coder of the group. 445 00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:43,400 - Demomaking, the way I used to do it for example, if I wanted to make a 3D object, back then in the group Digital Dynamite, 446 00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:52,000 - I'd draw a 3D blueprint of the letter D on graph paper, then use the grid to say 447 00:54:52,000 --> 00:55:02,280 - "Okay, this point in the top left will be 0,0; one square is a unit, so the next on will be 2,0" 448 00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:14,080 - I wrote down the numbers, typed them in, and eventually somehow managed to display it, because it was in the memory. 449 00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:23,480 - I did this a lot of times, and it got on my nerves, so I said �Okay, I�m gonna write a program that creates the source code for me!� 450 00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:31,080 - So I just plot the letter D somehow, and it spits out the source code. 451 00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:52,640 - If I needed to cite 'real life' examples, then our tool is Photoshop, 3D Studio, and Premiere combined. 452 00:55:52,640 --> 00:56:01,160 - They allow you to create textures procedurally, create 3D models, animate them, edit the animated 3D scenes, 453 00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:05,240 - and then you press the spacebar and the demo is played. 454 00:56:05,240 --> 00:56:13,320 - We don�t use commercial tools, because we do 64k intros, we wanna make small files. 455 00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:17,400 - We needed specialized tools, so we made some. 456 00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:31,840 - So this is basically the timeline. That little white cursor shows where we are in the intro. 457 00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:38,200 - This is kinda like Premiere, a standard video editor. 458 00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:47,160 - These are various events, for example these are post-processing effects, like contrast, blur, stuff like that. 459 00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:53,360 - See, this is a complete 3D model, put together in this tool. 460 00:56:53,360 --> 00:57:02,360 - We don�t work by defining triangles, we instead say �here�s a torus, with this radius and this number of points.� 461 00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:07,600 - That�s storing three parameters instead of twelve thousand points. 462 00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:12,840 - That�s what 64k is about: using three parameters instead of twelve thousand points. 463 00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:21,360 These incredibly small sizes are achieved by creating intros with binary program code and its parameters 464 00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:26,200 instead of using large pre-generated 3D models, pictures, videos, or music files. 465 00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:30,880 The computer then uses these parameters and algorithms to produce the visuals and sound. 466 00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:43,120 - It�s all built out of images like that. There�s nothing mindblowing in there, but the end result is really well tied together. 467 00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:54,200 - This is not a water simulation, even though it looks like one. 468 00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:59,640 - Those are not real sparkles, even though it looks like the sun is reflecting back. 469 00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:08,440 - So none of these are simulations of real things, just different methods made to look like the real thing. 470 00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:22,280 - These are the events being rendered, for example this layer is the clouds behind the sun, not sure if you can see it. 471 00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:29,360 - The next one is the sky, a simple rectangle with a color gradient. 472 00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:37,080 - The next one is the water, you can see that it�s just a simple texture scrolling. 473 00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:44,960 - The next one is the sparkles on the water, which are simple particles. 474 00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:56,480 - The trick is that we have this effect where you can offset lines horizontally, and if you apply it, it looks like water flowing, 475 00:58:56,480 --> 00:59:04,720 - you have the scrolling texture and it has sparkles of light on it. 476 00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:10,960 - So with this stuff you can do really spectacular things in a really small size for a 64k. 477 00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:23,240 Of course, not everyone wants to make a demotool. 478 00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:26,720 Some people have more fun starting from scratch every time they make a demo. 479 00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:36,880 - I�ll draw three times forty lines, and I�ll have the camera rotate around it. 480 00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:41,880 - Here we have the lines, and now we start adding effects one by one. 481 00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:47,520 - First, let�s bend them. 482 00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:51,800 - This is the line that makes them bend, here�s how it works: 483 00:59:51,800 --> 01:00:01,040 - you have the center of those little axes there, XYZ coordinates, and I�m going to rotate them using their distance from the origin, 484 01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:07,000 - multiply it with a sine value depending on the time, do this on two axes, 485 01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:11,280 - then write the result back to the original XYZ vector, and render them on screen. 486 01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:23,080 - Let�s say I want the lines to be longer if they�re farther from the origin. 487 01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:30,800 - V stands for the length of the lines: it�s the distance from the origin, meaning the absolute value of i, divided by ten. 488 01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:38,240 - That�s why they�re longer when they�re farther away, because if the coordinates are bigger, it means they�re farther off. 489 01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:43,560 - Down here I add V to the coordinates: X, then Y, then Z. 490 01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:53,560 The complexity of program code can grow infinitely; 491 01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:59,040 even among the most spectacular demos you can find some where the demo was created entirely from scratch, 492 01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:01,680 without the use of a demotool or other such software. 493 01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:14,920 With time, works that cannot be classified as music, graphics or demos have appeared. 494 01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:18,720 This gave birth to the 'wild' category. 495 01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:27,320 - It can be a really well rendered animation, a short film, or any sort of horrible crap. 496 01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:31,040 Murphy. Coder, graphics artist, member of Exceed. 497 01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:34,240 The editor of Scene.hu, and a genuine demoscene encyclopedia. 498 01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:46,600 - A few years back, I think it was at Breakpoint, they had a wild entry which was this huge machine they pushed on stage, 499 01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:54,120 - they had a 3x3x3 or 8x8x8 LED cube, and all sorts of blinking crap on it, and it just stood there doing it�s thing. 500 01:01:54,120 --> 01:02:01,600 - There�s been liveacts at wild compos, meaning it wasn�t projected, but people went up on stage. 501 01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:21,400 - Someone takes a microcontroller from a refrigerator and makes a demo for it 502 01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:24,360 - But we can safely consider it a joke! - No! 503 01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:28,040 - Okay, sure, when he�s making it he considers it dead serious. 504 01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:32,160 - Yeah, and when you�re watching it, you�re watching it seriously because it goes on for three minutes, 505 01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:34,560 - it has good looking effects, great music, 506 01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:42,360 - it�s just that when it starts off, and he mentions that this is a microcontroller used in the whatever brand of refrigerators, 507 01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:45,440 you can�t helping think �Riiiight, let�s see�. 508 01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:06,720 - At some point someone made a production for a really extreme platform, and they�ve been trying to top each other ever since. 509 01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:14,440 - Practically speaking, there are no platforms in the world which haven�t had demoscene activity on them at some point. 510 01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:18,160 - From pocket calculators to apartment buildings. 511 01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:24,520 While they don�t strictly tie in to the scene, one could perhaps classify the animations 512 01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:28,440 which are displayed on the wall of the 18-story Sch�nherz dormitory 513 01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:32,920 at Budapest University of Technology every year during the Sch�nherz Qpa a wild demo. 514 01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:36,320 Originally, this merely meant using lamps placed in the dorm room windows, 515 01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:43,080 but from 2010, the display was upgraded to provide a higher resolution and colors for the event entitled The Matrix. 516 01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:55,800 - In Hungary, you had this competition called the 'lamer demo'. It didn�t really take root anywhere else. 517 01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:58,040 - Not our fault! 518 01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:09,160 - The idea was that most of the wild demos were meant to be 'funny', so why not make a separate compo for them? 519 01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:15,960 You have the nicest hair in the world! Can I touch it? Wait, I didn�t mean that, NO! 520 01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:20,040 - For a few years, this was the most popular compo. 521 01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:24,480 - Yeah, �cos you didn�t really need large amounts of technical knowledge, 522 01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:29,640 - you just took some primitive animation, and added some �hilarious� music or voiceover. 523 01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:34,280 - There were some genuinely funny ones, but most of them were just exhausting. 524 01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:42,880 This child will start using Windows at the age of 38, get a heart attack at the age of 40, and die at the age of 41. 525 01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:52,800 The demoscene is the most popular today in Germany and Northern Europe. 526 01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:56,320 These countries also host the largest annual parties as well. 527 01:04:56,320 --> 01:05:03,600 Breakpoint, in Germany, held 8 times until 2010, hosted more than a thousand people from almost 30 countries around the world. 528 01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:07,800 Similarly grandiose are Assembly in Finland, or The Gathering in Norway, 529 01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:12,840 which both originated as demoparties, but are now open for the masses of computer gamers as well. 530 01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:21,800 Smaller events occur all over the world, and the number of productions released so far have grown over 50000. 531 01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:27,440 The roster is obviously huge, so becoming one of the best and most recognized isn�t an easy task. 532 01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:31,400 But from time to time, Hungarian groups have proven their place among the best, 533 01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:34,520 presenting artists whose reputation spreads across continents. 534 01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:45,480 - NVIDIA was organizing a demoparty in San Jose, in the US, and they asked Gargaj to host the event! 535 01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:51,600 - They wanted someone authentic, so they took a Hungarian dude to the US to speak English! 536 01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:57,200 - There are always a few groups who are remarkable, sometimes British, 537 01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:02,640 - sometimes Norwegian, sometimes German, sometimes Finnish. 538 01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:09,280 - And yeah, sometimes Hungarian groups manage to make their way to the top as well. 539 01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:17,400 Conspiracy is one of these groups, formed in 2002 by members of the 3 most active groups at the time. 540 01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:23,640 - We appeared in the scene with this group to challenge the kings of 64k at the time, 541 01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:29,840 - the ones who bludgeoned anyone to the point that people withdrew releases from compos 542 01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:36,120 - when they found out that there�s a Farbrausch intro, because they had no chance! 543 01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,920 - And with our first release, we just blew them away! 544 01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:44,080 - Conspiracy showed up at Breakpoint, has a four-parter, you know, 545 01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:50,120 - four whole complete demo parts in one 64K intro, which was astounding! 546 01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:04,360 - Is still going? 547 01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:06,440 - Is STILL going??? 548 01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:12,400 - We made it in complete secret, nobody knew that we had an intro, nobody even knew that we existed. 549 01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:23,720 - We wanted a blockbuster effect, you know, boom, here we are! And it worked! 550 01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:35,480 - We�re sitting there at the competition, the intros are playing, and some of the last ones are being played, 551 01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:43,120 - �cuz you never know how many intros are there, they never tell you, you just go �Oh another one! Excellent!� 552 01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:50,800 - So there were some good ones, then Farbrausch�s intro gets played, which is a really damn good intro, 553 01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:58,640 - the first intro to have an animated human person, a naked chick for good measure, so go figure! 554 01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:13,640 - So their intro ends, everyone thinks the compo is over, and then they start playing ours as the last one. 555 01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:22,520 - Tomcat is sitting behind me going �They might as well just not play this one!� �Cuz you know, Farbrausch was just that good. 556 01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:32,480 - So we had our intro, Project Genesis, and it�s ten minutes long, very very versatile, and there are parts in it for everyone to like. 557 01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:43,080 - We put a huge logo in the front saying 'Conspiracy', 558 01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:50,960 - no-one knew what the hell who they were or what they wanted, but we left the actual credits to the end. 559 01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:59,720 - We used realtime cloth simulation to put out a Hungarian flag, and we had our names appear in front of it. 560 01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:05,200 - So when my name appears, Tomcat punches me in the shoulder 561 01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:08,840 - and goes �F*ck you, you bastards never mentioned this!� 562 01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:22,160 - Gargaj just jumped up, and started waving the Hungarian flag in the front row, that was excellent. 563 01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:42,960 Their initial success was followed by even more. Their 64k intro Chaos Theory is possibly the best known Hungarian intro in the world. 564 01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:50,280 It�s popularity and reverence is best shown by the fact that the French demogroup FRequency created a 4k remix for MAIN 2010. 565 01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:58,440 - Two weeks ago, we were searching for an idea to do a quick compo for the 4k. 566 01:09:58,440 --> 01:10:08,520 - We were watching demos like usually late at night with friends and we thought: 567 01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:14,840 - Hey, why not take a 64k and try to make it into 4k? 568 01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:21,120 - And when we said this, the first 64k that came into our mind was Chaos Theory. 569 01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:29,640 - It�s really famous in the intro scene, 570 01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:41,040 - beacuse it�s quite the first demo to have such an entertaining music and such complex visual in a so tight size. 571 01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:52,280 Of course, Conspiracy isn�t the only Hungarian group we can be proud of. 572 01:10:52,280 --> 01:10:57,480 Exceed, in 2000, made demo history when they won both of the biggest demoparties in one year. 573 01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:14,480 Their 64k intro Heaven 7 is still considered to be among one of the best to this day, and their demo Spot won Assembly in Finland. 574 01:11:14,480 --> 01:11:17,120 The list of Hungarian groups� successes could go on: 575 01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:23,920 On the C64, the demo Soiled Legacy by Resource used to be considered as one of the 10 best demos on the platform for years. 576 01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:34,800 - The funny thing is, this sort of Hungarian spirit exists in the scene too. 577 01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:40,480 - Consider the period of time around the Olympics in Barcelona or Sydney, 578 01:11:40,480 --> 01:11:46,120 - when the entire country was rooting for Egerszegi Krisztina, Kov�cs �gi, Darnyi Tam�s, Nagy T�mea. 579 01:11:46,120 --> 01:11:52,360 - I think this kind of support can be felt by demogroups too, we know we�re a little handicapped due to the history, 580 01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:54,840 - we�re sort of the underdogs, 581 01:11:54,840 --> 01:12:01,400 - and that creates that Hungarian spirit where you get a small team just blowing away the competition! 582 01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:11,920 - So what happened around �91-�92? 583 01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:22,400 - It was unusual because this being the Eastern Bloc, even the active sceners had a problem with the language barrier. 584 01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:36,480 - There was a huge group of people though. We had demoparties with over a thousand people here in Hungary. 585 01:12:36,480 --> 01:12:47,720 - The scene was huge back then, and we were fine on our own, �cos there were years where you had six to eight parties. 586 01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:55,120 - There�s been years where you had as many parties as four other countries combined 587 01:12:55,120 --> 01:13:00,880 - so much stuff was happening that we were doing fine or our own. 588 01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:11,560 - To show how successful Hungarians are, there�s a site called Pou�t, 589 01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:17,080 - which is the biggest demoscene site and has almost all the prods you can think of. 590 01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:20,240 - It has a Top Ten chart of the most popular demos, 591 01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:25,880 - and I don�t know how it is now, but there used to be a time where three out of ten were Hungarian ones. 592 01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:28,280 - So what's the highest honour for your work? 593 01:13:28,280 --> 01:13:33,360 - When you win a party, especially if you win against people who were doing their best. 594 01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:37,960 - It depends I guess. My favorite recognition is the kind where someone comes up at a party 595 01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:41,320 - and says �whoa, you�re the one who made the wow.� 596 01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:47,560 - You know, when you can see that the work has travelled all the way down the chain, to people who only heard of it, 597 01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:52,480 - and are surprised as they go �Wow, you made that? I saw it so many times, I loved it!� 598 01:13:52,480 --> 01:13:58,280 - Indeed, that�s the best, when they don�t know you made it and they find out. I think that�s the best kind of recognition. 599 01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:07,680 One of the idiosyncratic motifs of mutual reverence in demos are the 'greetings', 600 01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:11,080 where the creators of the demo pay respect to the groups they greatly admire. 601 01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:15,280 Being greeted in a demo made by one of the popular groups is considered a badge of honor, 602 01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:18,520 as it expresses that they consider your work to be one of the best. 603 01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:27,000 - So do you have 'celebrities' or 'legends' in Hungary? 604 01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:34,760 - Legends are made by people who are younger, for example I guess today it�s Gargaj and his group who are the most popular, 605 01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:39,560 - so for newcomers, they�re the ones who are considered legends. 606 01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:43,120 - You�ve been legends too! 607 01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:51,200 - Yeah, I read diskmag articles about Murphy. It�s really bizarre to meet someone you�ve read so much about! 608 01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:59,160 Occasionally, a demo becomes popular outside the scene as well. 609 01:14:59,160 --> 01:15:05,680 - I�m in Szeged, piss-drunk, and above me, two guys are talking about 64k intros and Conspiracy and stuff like that. 610 01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:11,040 - I look up, ask �What? you know Conspiracy?� �Yeah! They�re awesome!� 611 01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:15,800 - �Hi, I�m BoyC.� Dude�s eyes widen, he goes �the f*ck are you doing here?� 612 01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:17,840 - �What? I came to see a concert� 613 01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:32,320 - We were boozing next to the ELTE around the ZP, and these three girls show up, some friend brought them along, 614 01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:39,080 - and a buddy asks me to show them Chaos Theory, �coz I had a video of it on my phone. 615 01:15:39,080 --> 01:15:44,880 - So I show it to one of the girls, and she goes �Oh I know, we studied this one!� 616 01:15:55,280 --> 01:15:57,240 The demoscene is dead. 617 01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:02,720 - The phrase "the scene is dead" has been around for the past thirty years. 618 01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:08,880 - I joined the scene around �98, and already in �98 people were trying to bury it or well, it was different! 619 01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:17,640 - Fifteen years ago you had half a dozen or a dozen parties a year, and that dropped off a lot. 620 01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:28,880 When we did SCEnEST in �96, we had twelve-hundred paying visitors! That was one hell of a party! 621 01:16:36,480 --> 01:16:43,440 - The generation who were attending high school later went to university, grew up, whoops, family happened, 622 01:16:43,440 --> 01:16:49,600 - work happened, everything happened, and the enthusiasm is still there, but the time isn�t. 623 01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:54,720 - Really sitting down to make a good demo, the last time that happened, was in 1999. 624 01:16:54,720 --> 01:17:00,960 - Now it�s no group, no demo? - No, not really, there are always plans, but it never happens. 625 01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:04,440 - Why? - Because I�m old! 626 01:17:04,440 --> 01:17:08,400 - And you can�t write demos now? - I can but 627 01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:14,480 - I�m old and lazy. No, I mean, I don�t have the time, or rather, the mood. 628 01:17:14,480 --> 01:17:18,680 - You go home after working ten hours - don�t laugh 629 01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:25,960 - ten hours in the office, you don�t really wanna go home and do the same thing afterwards, it doesn�t work. 630 01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:38,440 - There�s still a new generation, but they�re not as numerous as they used to be in the �golden era�. 631 01:17:38,440 --> 01:17:42,240 - To create a demo there is a lot of work involved within. 632 01:17:42,240 --> 01:17:47,280 - And not necessarily the same instant feedback and gratification you can get from, say, 633 01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:51,160 - making a YouTube video in five minutes, and then you get like fifty thousand hits 634 01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:54,720 - from people telling you that either it�s brilliant or that you suck. 635 01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:56,520 - You don�t get that in the demoscene, 636 01:17:56,520 --> 01:18:02,560 - you might get like twelve people saying how brilliant it is and three hundred people tell you, that it sucks. 637 01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:09,680 - So the payoff isn�t necessarily there for kids to say: �I want to spend that amount of time�. 638 01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:19,040 - Back then Orange was a great example who could go from zero to hero in a year just by working hard to produce something world class. 639 01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:23,520 - Today, if you start from scratch, it takes about four years. 640 01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:31,280 - A viral video on the Internet lasts what? Less than 15 minutes of fame. 641 01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:39,920 - But, you know a demo we remember demos from last year, the year before, ten years ago, fifteen years ago. 642 01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:47,480 - If you could put out a rotating cube on the screen, you were the king. The standards are so different now. 643 01:18:47,480 --> 01:18:55,120 - Think about it, you go to the movies, watch Avatar, that�s the kind of quality you�re up against. 644 01:19:06,280 --> 01:19:15,080 - That�s why you have to help them. It�s almost as if you have to prepare them mentally to create their first demo. 645 01:19:15,080 --> 01:19:24,000 - Yeah, it is a problem that they don�t dare to, but it�s a pretty silly attitude, if you can�t then you can�t, but you at least tried. 646 01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:31,440 - It�s all about the attitude. The point is whether you want to be successful in the scene or just want to be present. 647 01:19:31,440 --> 01:19:37,720 - If you want to be successful, you have to write a tool, work for years, find a graphics artist, find a designer. 648 01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:41,720 - If you just wanna have fun, just sit down and make some demos. 649 01:19:45,440 --> 01:19:53,760 - Think about it; the scene is a rather technically-oriented, artistic, computer-centric, underground, free-for-all thing. 650 01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:57,400 - Are you surprised that it�s not popular?! 651 01:19:57,400 --> 01:20:06,160 - I think it�s normal, you have the Internet now, console this, console that, kids are occupied by different things. 652 01:20:06,160 --> 01:20:12,240 - Back then, you know, we didn�t have the Internet, we just hacked away on our little computers we bought 653 01:20:12,240 --> 01:20:19,320 - We bought? I mean our parents bought! And we thought it was really interesting, what we could do. 654 01:20:19,320 --> 01:20:24,120 - In any given city you had a limited number of computers, and some people started doing creative things on them, 655 01:20:24,120 --> 01:20:29,840 - in some way it was a privilege. Nowadays, everyone uses computers, so you can�t really spread that far. 656 01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:38,120 - If kids sit down in front of the Internet today, they have the whole world in front of them, they do what they want, 657 01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:42,800 - they play games, they browse. It�s different, the world works differently now. 658 01:20:47,440 --> 01:20:56,600 - You gotta realize, back in �95, the most spectacular things you could see on a computer were demos. 659 01:20:56,600 --> 01:21:02,720 - Games were mostly still 2D at the time, they were a step behind. 660 01:21:02,720 --> 01:21:11,920 - They were way beyond games made by professional studios, they were capable of producing better quality. 661 01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:16,440 - Now all you have to do is to go to YouTube, 662 01:21:16,440 --> 01:21:22,680 - and check out the showreels of the ten best VFX studios to see what the top of the line is. 663 01:21:22,680 --> 01:21:25,440 - We didn�t have Toy Story and things like that. 664 01:21:25,440 --> 01:21:30,040 - Now someone can go to the movies, and then see a 4k intro, and obviously wonder what the point is?! 665 01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:45,040 - You can�t really visually match up a cutscene made with hundreds of man-months of work with the spare-time activity of 5-6 people. 666 01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:49,560 - So it�s more about new ideas nowadays. 667 01:21:56,200 --> 01:22:01,080 - The older ones are always complaining about the lack of newcomers, 668 01:22:01,080 --> 01:22:07,680 - but there�s always a few new groups, new guys, they learn their chops, and they evolve. 669 01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:19,280 - I�ll say this: I�m really really lucky to have the demoscene. I feel very fortunate, and it worked out really well. 670 01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:22,120 - So how did you find it? 671 01:22:22,120 --> 01:22:27,560 - I was looking for programming stuff, and I accidentally stumbled upon it. 672 01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:32,160 - And when I saw it, I just thought, �Wow, what�s this, this is so cool!� 673 01:22:32,800 --> 01:22:38,960 MaxUser6000. Travelled all the way from Transylvania to Budapest to present his first demo ever at Function 2010. 674 01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:44,520 - When my demo was running, my heart started beating really fast! 675 01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:48,880 - Like a band playing on stage? - Exactly, like a band on stage! 676 01:22:55,400 --> 01:22:59,600 - So what was your aim when you sat down to make a demo? �Cos there is pretty tough competition. 677 01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:02,080 - Do you wanna place well? Or win? 678 01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:10,280 - I was just thinking of the demo, to make a demo that doesn�t assault the audience too much, maybe they�ll even enjoy it a bit. 679 01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:15,040 - That�s what I planned, and it turned out better than I intended! 680 01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:29,480 �Better than intended� in this case means that the demo finished first in the demo competition after the audience vote. 681 01:23:29,480 --> 01:23:34,480 And while there isn�t much to be gained apart from recognition and some modest prizes from the sponsors, 682 01:23:34,480 --> 01:23:38,320 there�s a chance that experience gained in the scene will provide him with a good job offer. 683 01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:43,680 - The biggest job market for demosceners is obviously game development, 684 01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:47,040 - or sometimes people end up working for animation studios. 685 01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:52,880 - I for one ended up as a game developer, 686 01:23:52,880 --> 01:24:00,960 - because the CEO of one of the older game development companies used to attend parties to headhunt new talent. 687 01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:08,120 - I don�t want to lie, but for me, for about 7-8 years, this was just a hobby, for 7-8 years I was just making music constantly. 688 01:24:08,120 --> 01:24:13,440 - Then I reached the point where I was able to make a living out of it, 689 01:24:13,440 --> 01:24:18,760 - because I did it for so long that the demoscene became a springboard for me. 690 01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:24,240 - It�s a great sandbox to learn in, if you do something, you get immediate feedback. 691 01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:32,760 - Your demo is played, the crowd is jeering, they�ll tell you immediately if it was crap or if it was great. 692 01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:41,440 - And you can learn a lot from this how to put it, blunt and unfiltered feedback. 693 01:24:41,440 --> 01:24:45,880 - You learn what works and what doesn�t. 694 01:24:53,120 --> 01:25:06,080 - The people who started this in the early-mid-�90s, they�re probably all working for some game development studio now, 695 01:25:06,080 --> 01:25:13,360 - or some sort of visual effects or post-production company. 696 01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:18,400 - These people really know their stuff, you know? 697 01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:27,160 - And they work in really big companies like Pixar, or Apple, Microsoft. 698 01:25:28,360 --> 01:25:35,160 These people not only work for some of the biggest companies, many European game development studios were founded by demosceners. 699 01:25:35,160 --> 01:25:40,040 Demogroups were responsible for the birth of DICE, creator of the Battlefield series; 700 01:25:40,040 --> 01:25:43,440 or Remedy, authors of games like Max Payne and Alan Wake. 701 01:25:43,440 --> 01:25:47,480 Several demo musicians have also worked on successful game soundtracks as well, 702 01:25:47,480 --> 01:25:50,000 such as Assassins� Creed or the Unreal series. 703 01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:57,120 We�ve also seen multinational corporations such as NVIDIA, Intel or Microsoft organize their own demoparties or demo competitions, 704 01:25:57,120 --> 01:26:00,320 providing their own tools for the creators to produce with. 705 01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:47,480 Artists in the scene aren�t motivated by publicity or worldwide success. 706 01:26:47,480 --> 01:26:53,560 As professional they are, their works are only intended for those few hundred people who understand and appreciate them. 707 01:26:53,560 --> 01:26:58,800 Their works may be world class, yet they don�t seem to mind that the world itself has probably never heard of them. 708 01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:04,200 - The demoscene is an amateur league. People don�t take it as seriously. 709 01:27:04,200 --> 01:27:10,520 - I mean, even if the coder and the graphics artist put something extraordinary in the demo, it�s still a hobby. 710 01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:14,920 - If the musician writes a great song that could be a hit single, it�s still a hobby. 711 01:27:14,920 --> 01:27:19,160 - It�s about showing your production to that very small circle of people. 712 01:27:19,160 --> 01:27:26,320 - I don�t want to do something that interests everyone, because that�s the best part about it, 713 01:27:26,320 --> 01:27:32,280 - that it�s limited to these few people, it�s their hobby, and that�s it. 714 01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:40,520 Whether we recognize the values of our era and our past depends on us. 715 01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:45,200 What we learn from our cultural environment also depends on us. 716 01:27:45,200 --> 01:27:48,720 There�s always a new and exciting scene to discover. 717 01:27:48,720 --> 01:27:53,720 Whether we color the future or let it fade to gray, ultimately, depends on us.